Archived Message

Scolding the Transgressor
by MaryM
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
We got Sassy in June at the age of 10 weeks 5 days after our Silky Terrier died. We rescued Benji a couple of weeks ago because the breeder became very ill. He was 11 weeks. Because of the breeder's illness, both were very stringently paper trained when they came to live with us. I thought the breeder was a genius for having accomplished this feat. I've never used papers with puppies before except during the housebreaking stage. Because of the unrelenting Southwestern heat this summer, Sassy did not get house-broken. This little gal has an attitude and was keeping me outside most of the day on false alarms for a couple of 108 degree days with NO success. She had NO clue and though sometimes she'd accidentally pee outdoors and get praise, she'd never pooped outside til this week! I had finally just set up one paper area in her own bathroom and decided to wait til the weather broke. She had NO accidents after that. (On a trip a couple of weeks ago, she wet in the yard on leash the whole time, but refused to poop for over 2 days and then it was in a dark, remote corner of a little-used room). Enter Benji two weeks ago. After he had lived here about a week, I started finding surprises. But, because of volume, I know he was not the only culprit. When, late one night this week, in the dark hallway, I stomped one of these with my bare foot, I knew the time had come to get out the crates and begin the trips outside. Thankfully, we've finally had relief from the months of 100 plus temps. Tuesday this week, I took up all the papers and crated my precious babies. I only let them out to play after we've had full success in the yard and re-crate them in a couple of hours. Benji is doing great, but he's NOT totally innocent. Sassy's making progress. We occasionally find a surprise (like a puddle at the foot of our bed last night or the transgression in the breakfast room yesterday afternoon). So, who do we scold? I hate scolding the one who is not guilty, but this NOT acceptable. I know you need to keep them crated or at least leashed to you during this training period. And I have noticed they are becoming more obedient now that I've taken control. But these little guys are used to playing together all day and they deserve a relief. I felt like a Maltese abuser Tuesday when we started this and I only let them out to go out on leashes or to offer food or water which they refused. Now, three days later, the pattern seems set and I can pretty well time them. I'm trying to relax, take them outside without the leashes and let them have a period of play before re-crating them. I do realize there are going to be occasional accidents and that they basically need to be crated for a while. (Hubby became a believer in the crates last night after the wetting incident).

OK...so my question is...are we causing stress to the innocent by showing the transgression to both babies and scolding them? Also, does anyone have any suggestions when working with two furbabies at once? I feel another week will be about all it will take with Benji, as he gets very vocal in his crate when he needs to go outside; Sassy is not as predictable, as she's been quite frustrating in past attempts. But she doesn't like being crated when we come back in and Benji gets to stay out and play. These are my first Maltese, though I've always wanted one. Our Silky was 12 years old when he died in June and he'd been house-broken since he was 8 weeks old. So I'm treading in strange territory.Thanks for any suggestions. :}

DISCUSSION:

If you want to give them play periods together before putting them in their crates, could you gate off a kitchen or other area without carpet? Maybe a puppy john with papers, in that area too. Others here sing the praises of the puppy john.
Mary


I am a firm believer in getting more flies with honey than with vinegar. I never scolded Puff for peeing or pooing in the house, and it was a long 8 weeks in winter till she pretty much got the hang of it. Even now, when she has the occasional accident (when its raining and she doesnt want to go out and get wet) I don't say a word. You really can't scold, especially if you don't know who is doing what. If you catch them in the act, that's different. But if you dont, all you can do it grit your teeth and silently clean up the mess. I think what you are doing is the proper proceedure and it really sounds like you have things pretty much under control. I can't offer much advice except to keep up what you are doing. I really believe you are on the home stretch. Hang in there. :)
Sandy and Puff
i think you need to follow the exact same routine with both dogs,otherwise they are BOTH going to be confused and i would suggest you abandon the scolding completely UNLESS you catch the perpetrator in the act otherwise the dogs will simply go when you are not around and fear you which is not what you want..praise is a far more potent trainer...good luck
rob
Hi, Mary, First of all, I would like to tell you that I admire your patience and diligence on this. I know from experience that housebreaking is not the easiest of tasks to accomplish. I know that you will find all kinds of helpful information in the archives, but I will give you a couple of tips here based on what worked for me. First of all, please do not scold either of your babies unless you catch them in the act. Your dogs will not understand what they are being punnished for. It won't help the housebreaking situation at all, and could result in making them fearful. In training Touquet, I had the best results when I clapped and gave him a treat and lavish praise each time he used his papers (even if I put him on them myself). Once he caught on that using the papers was worth a reward, his training went very quickly. Eventually I had to wean him off the treats when he started to pretend to use his papers every five minutes. There were accidents along the way, but I just sighed and cleaned them up. If I caught him in the act, I quickly scooped him up and ran with him to his papers (dripping all the way). At the end of the process, I treated myself to a professional carpet cleaning. Now Touquet is 3, and hasn't had an accident since he was a puppy. I think he would rather burst first! I am sure you will hear lots of useful advice on this topic. Chin up -- this period really doesn't last forever! Good luck!
Barbara & Touquet
Mary :) You seem to have the hang of it. I agree with all of the above! A play time together in an uncarpeted area might help also. I also agree wholeheartedly with 'no scolding'! Lots of praise is all thats ever needed when they go in the correct place! If you see them in the process, just pick them up & either place them on the paper or outside with your usual command! You're almost there! Good luck!
BeeGee
Barbara's right that dogs don't understand what they're being scolded for unless caught right in the act. I, too, was bewildered when I never seemed to catch Angel in the act, although it felt like I was with him every minute. It's said that if you scold them after the fact, they might even construe that to mean that you're not happy where they left it and they'd better hide it better the next time. God forbid! I also made a huge fuss with clapping, repeated "Good boy!" incessantly and followed up with treats when things were done right. I also found that, on those occasions that I missed him doing his accidents, all I had to do was gasp and ask, "Did you do that?" in a shocked tone, pick him up and place him on the pad (we paper trained at the time; now he's housebroken), pat it several times and repeat, "pee on the pad," or whatever catch phrase you want to use. He really did seem to understand what I was trying to tell him. Good luck!
siobhan

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